[Lekooks] Debate performance

[Fran B.]

Perhaps this would be a good topic for a post sermon discussion.
I personally enjoy reading people's thoughts on the upcoming election, especially when they post links and articles.
I'm confident we Kooks can remain civil and respectful via written discourse.
Fran Bills

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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From: Lekooks <lekooks-bounces at lekook.org> on behalf of Jon Hubbard via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2024 12:05:19 PM
To: mattaspin2 at gmail.com <mattaspin2 at gmail.com>
Cc: kjoholson at gmail.com <kjoholson at gmail.com>; michael.mcnett at sbcglobal.net <michael.mcnett at sbcglobal.net>; stephaniejotsoris at gmail.com <stephaniejotsoris at gmail.com>; psmithw318 at gmail.com <psmithw318 at gmail.com>; gerflak at aol.com <gerflak at aol.com>; jjnijohnson at aol.com <jjnijohnson at aol.com>; eharrahy at gmail.com <eharrahy at gmail.com>; kuhnjohnb at gmail.com <kuhnjohnb at gmail.com>; lekooks at lekook.org <lekooks at lekook.org>
Subject: Re: [Lekooks] Debate performance


Very well said.

Jon

On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 11:56 AM Matt Aspin <mattaspin2 at gmail.com<mailto:mattaspin2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

Rev. Matt here. I was waiting for the right moment to chime in and this feels like this.

Whether it's a policy already or not, recent history and scholarship has shown that on line is not the healthiest forum to debate difficult issues.

This does not mean that difficult issues should not be addressed. Failing to debate difficult topics can be just as damaging to a democracy.

Our UU faith tradition has a rich history of political dissent. The Founders of this nation rarely agreed, but they were able to stay within the hard tension of disagreement until agreeable comprises could be reached-hopefully with ideas that were strengthened through the process of vigorous debate.

This seems to be a lost art, a practice that our faith tradition implores us to resurrect. There is a line in the Purpose Statement of your Bylaws that says:

"To act as a moral force in the world governed by justice, equity, and compassion."

Social media draws us into our chosen belief bubbles, and our culture discourages us from being disagreeable. But if we are to have any claim to being a moral force in the world, we have got to get better at bringing our ideas to the community, listening to disagreement, and committing to stay in conversation until we are on confident that whatever ideas we move forward with have passed not only our own litmus but also that of our gathered community (especially those that seem to disagree with us).

All of which is to say...if anyone is interested in forming a group committed to learning and practicing the skills of vigorous debate within the context of covenantal relationship, I would be eager to participate in and support such a group.

Because again...if not us, then who, and if not now, then when?

Rev Matt

On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 11:28 AM Kirsten Olson via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:
Thanks Steph.  You are correct
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 29, 2024, at 11:02 AM, Michael McNett via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


Hi, Stephanie,

I would enthusiastically support you in that stance, even if it hadn’t already been established. The potential for hurt feelings, antagonisms, etc. associated with political discussions is at this time so high that it doesn’t would seem unjustified to engage in it in this format.

It would seem far more prudent for someone who wants to share political views to specifically target the people who they believe would be appropriate to receive their message.

Thank you for the bringing this to our attention,
Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 29, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Stephanie Tsoris via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


Good morning! ☀️

My understanding is that we are not supposed to use Lekooks for politics anymore. Feel free to correct me if I’m mistaken.

✌��

~Steph

On Jun 29, 2024, at 8:23 AM, Jon Hubbard via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


I already provided a reference that is a direct source- his own website, where he clearly explains all his positions... you'll see if you go there ( https://kennedy24.com<https://kennedy24.com/> ) he's not extreme on the vaccinations... that's just one of the negative propaganda from those aligned against him.  He's pushing for better research and scrutiny of the fda processes.   He has lots of video out there where he addresses a lot of these misleading stories his opponents have told over the years.

For those not internet savvy, you can find me any given Sunday at church, and I can show you the sources he provides... you may or may not side with him, but I can definitely get you to the accurate information that he himself provides.

As for third party candidates not being realistic... well, that's only true until the first time it's not true... what better time than now to build a better world with more choices and a truer system of democracy.  Given the lack of appeal of either of the traditional two sides, Kennedy has a unique opportunity of not having a ton of competition... his biggest obstacle truly is the belief that third party candidates can't win... and after this fiasco of a debate, there's been dvem more interest and support in him...

Jon

On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 7:28 AM Phil Smith <psmithw318 at gmail.com<mailto:psmithw318 at gmail.com>> wrote:
I’ll side with Gerry here- I’m also concerned about his less than enthusiastic attitude towards climate solutions.
As Gerry said though, always open to listen to new info
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
Phil Smith
262-719 1542.

On Jun 29, 2024, at 7:21 AM, Gerald Flakas via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


Third party candidates have a history of electing presidents who are the opposite of the third party candidates: Ross Perot gave us Clinton over Bush I in '92, Ralph Nader gave us Bush II in 2000, and Jill Stein gave us Trump in '16. RFK II would give us Trump for sure.
As for RFK II on vaccinations, everything I've see about him looks pretty extreme and even unhinged. Jon, can you furnish any references that show otherwise?

Thanks,

Gerry

On Friday, June 28, 2024 at 03:52:11 PM CDT, Jon Hubbard via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


I don't vote out of fear, and it's only the two party belief system that has people believing that 3rd parties don't have a chance... there's plenty of evidence this time that RFK jr DOES have a chance.

Just because you did the right thing one time and it didn't work doesn't mean you shouldn't ever try again, especially when there's so much that's different.

Dare to dream, you know?

Jon

On Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 3:46 PM Jane Johnson <jjnijohnson at aol.com<mailto:jjnijohnson at aol.com>> wrote:
Jon and John-Here is my simplistic response to your emails:

John-Biden had a bad performance but I personally think it's too late to replace him. I am thinking about the candidates as leaders of a team. I try to picture voting for Biden's cabinet, policies, and potential appointees and not just Joe. VERSES... Trump's team of family and bad guys!!! (I am very concerned about the future of the Supreme Court.)

Jon-I recently discussed the 2000 election with a friend that voted for Ralph Nader. Nader had no chance of winning as a 3rd party candidate. Nader was a great guy but took votes away from Al Gore, especially in FL and NH, and this gave us 8 years of George W. Bush.

Many people are disgusted with the choice of candidates but please think about Team Blue verses Team Red. Which one aligns more closely with your values?

Jane Johnson

On Friday, June 28, 2024 at 01:45:10 PM CDT, Jon Hubbard via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:


This is actually a perfect example of a stroy that's been twisted and misrepresented- he's not anti-vax, he's actually advocating for more research, and calling out some very suspicious priorities from the fda.

There's lots of propaganda like this out there meant to discredit him and make everyone believe your only two options are Trump and Biden, so I don't think I want to sign up to respond everyone comes across another rumor or story fed to them from the rnc or dnc... I'll just repeat my first point- do some research, go straight to the source, and maybe you'll like what you find.

Jon

On Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 1:15 PM Elisabeth Harrahy <eharrahy at gmail.com<mailto:eharrahy at gmail.com>> wrote:
Just FYI. Robert F Kennedy Jr has a track record of being anti-vaccine, etc.

On Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 12:14 PM Jon Hubbard via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:
At the risk of starting a political debate here, there is another option:  Kennedy.

The media has been deliberately misleading both sides to think he's a spoiler candidate and/or has no chance, and flooding the public with misinformation on what he stands for.  Polls everywhere are saying he's got every chance to beat either or both of the "traditional" candidates. He streamed the debate last night and answered all the same questions with the same rules, and his answers were articulate, positive, actionable, and not focused on just the mudslinging we saw from the other two.  For those of us who watched his version (which included everything said on the CNN production) we got to see what a real candidate actually is like. It was inspiring, which is a sentiment that's coming out of neither of the traditional camps this morning.  He prioritized and championed human rights, healing our nation, prioritizing true health care, not big-pharma, eliminating corruption in our government agencies, and rebuilding America not as a domineering world force, but as a nation of integrity with a vision of a positive future.  I am 45, and I have never been inspired by a candidate like this.

If you're interested in moving this country forward in a positive direction, if, like so many of us, you're tired of politics being focused on the bipartisan bickering, then take a minute and check out https://www.kennedy24.com/

You don't have to vote out of fear, you don't have to choose the lesser of two evils.  There's hope.  Have an open mind, go to his website, see what he stands for, and see if you don't find something you can believe in.

Jon

On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 10:08 AM John Kuhn via Lekooks <lekooks at lekook.org<mailto:lekooks at lekook.org>> wrote:

It seems to me after last night’s performance and the resulting media publicity that Biden has very little chance in hell of winning in November.  I don’t understand why he doesn’t step aside for VP Harris or a popular moderate like Gov Beshear of Kentucky!  The whole Democratic Party is going to accountable for Biden losing to Trump and not doing anything about it while the ship is sinking.  Instead of just being sad, I sent emails to Biden, Harris and the DNC chair voicing my opinion.  Unless you are okay with Trump winning in November, it wouldn’t hurt for you to do the same.  Maybe if enough of us do it, things will change.  Here are some links to make it easy:



https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/share/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/vicepresident/

https://democrats.org/contact-us/



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